1970, 914-6, 93K miles - excellent shape, very minor rust

I will post to this thread occasionally as I move through this project, I have asked for guidance and received many good thoughts from this team - thank you 914World

I am in the midst of removing the engine and transmission. All original. There is oil everywhere, not flowing but seeping - seems that the valve covers are not tightened or have loosened with age. Here are the first pics:

On the rack - hopefully not for long:

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Shift Assembly is very clean, no wear, bushings are in good shape but all of them will be replaced

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Heat exchangers have no holes in the pipes that I could find, the surrounding tin has been treated with anti-rust leakage - perhaps this was the plan in Stuttgart?

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No plans to change the exhaust system - any guidance as to cleaning or preservation?

All comments and guidance appreciated - engine coming down on Friday

Nice example. Thanks for sharing.

You might consider a jack adapter for safely removing the engine. There are a variety of home made ways to do it. I am going to buy this when it comes time to install our freshly rebuilt engine.

Great minds..................

It arrives on Friday from Pelican, that is why the drop is on Friday!

I have refurbished many original heat exchangers. I like to treat with Ospho then clean very well and paint with high heat gray primer. Works well

powder coat?

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I have refurbished many original heat exchangers. I like to treat with Ospho then clean very well and paint with high heat gray primer. Works well
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Please post a follow up and let us know what you think of the adapter.

If you are interested in doing more than Ben suggested, consider ceramic coating. But, I thinks Ben's suggestion is sound advise.

I found a very good powder coat shop here in the Boston area - they did all of my 2.0L engine tin as well as various other components.

I was going to have them do the engine tin as well as have them look at the heat exchangers, factory gray is a good idea - any more advice? Ceramic Gray?

On our 70 914-6, the DAPO had the heat exchangers ceramic coated. They were already in excellent shape, and I think it will help preserve them.

I don't think it is a bad thing. On par with LED lighting and replacing the plastic fuel lines with stainless steel.

I have a set of the stainless fuel line ready to go! LEDs too,

Drained the transmission last night, when I rolled out from under the car the cable from the trouble light pulled the oil catcher under the drain plug out of position. Did not notice for a few minutes - cleaned most of it last night, will be "Dawning" the floor tonight......sigh

Sure looks like a clean 914-6, can't wait to see more pictures!

Looks like a great example

DON'T DO THAT!

Slimy mess will result.

Gets some mineral sprits/carb spray/old school clay cat litter/paper towels.

Clean most of it up with the carb spray and paper towels.

Wet surface with mineral spirits, scrub it in with a brush. let sit 10 minutes and repeat.

Let sit 10 minutes (keep it wet always!) then cover with the cat litter.

The longer you let the litter sit improves the results. I'll let it sit overnight.

The litter will act like a sponge and suck the gear oil OUT of the concrete.

You can completely remove OLD stains from concrete this way as well.

If you still want to you can finish with a super light amount of Dawn. I normally don't use it as the "soapiness" comes back anytime that section of concrete gets wet...

Excellent Guidance - THANK YOU

I have an epoxy "cant find the part" floor. so no porous problems - same guidance?

Jet Hot did an excellent job on those exchangers. They were like jewelry when I got them back.

Dude.. I am NOT complaining. They are great! I was recommending them.

Nope. The epoxy solves the soak shit up problem. Just the carb cleaner and paper towels. Don't leave the carb cleaner on long time.

I still wouldn't use the Dawn, but epoxy also doesn't allow the soapiness to soak in either.

I have found the epoxy to be slippery anyway when wet.

Found a 901 Core in CT yesterday, drove and picked it up - nice family, younger man - son- real car guy, had a few 914, and has never heard of 914WORLD

I gave him the URL - perhaps he will chime in???

I wanted to harvest a few parts (you all know the one I was hopeful for) - I was hopeful but not too much - Wow, I think i found a freshly re-built transmission - YOU DECIDE!

The transmission is out of a car that burned in 86. Here it is:

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Case was easy to open and is a tail shifter.

Here is a clue - there are two folded tabs

Number 1

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Number 2

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Lets look at First Gear

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Sync Ring and Dog Teeth look near perfect to me - does anyone see anything different?


Here are 2nd and third

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Here are 3rd, 4th and 5th

3rds sync is a bit worn, teeth look great

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4th and 5th

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Dog teeth on 4th

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Dog Teeth on 5th

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So I ask all of you teeners - this tail shifter looks pretty good - perhaps the good doctor will weigh in?

I will add my opinion after I read from a few of the more learned members - but I think it looks pretty good - there are a few clues that tell a story.

THANK YOU TEENERS!

Your impression of the internals is good ?
put your 914 6 tailcover on it and install.
repair/rebuild the original at your leisure

Rory, I will crack the 914-6 case this weekend, pretty sure 2nd sync ring is gone or close to it…….i like your idea!

I wouldn't do that. The gearing is different in an original six transmission.

The six has a GA second gear and a Z fifth gear. The 4 has an F second gear and a ZD fifth gear. The Z fifth in the six is to keep the fan spinning faster so it doesn't overheat.

I learned this the hard way. When I first had my 2.4 six in my conversion, I put an HB in for for fifth gear. I could not drive 60mph. I had to drive 50 in 4th or 75 in 5th. If I tired to run 60, the oil and heat temps skyrocketed.

I have a rear shift 4 cyl. trans (with ZF ltd.slip !) in my 40 year owned 914 6
Yes, the ratios are different but as a temporary measure to keep the car on the road
or even just mobile, it can't be beat. My original trans is out for refresh.
Also, Boston temps vs. Texas

Clay,

Thanks for the note! I would not change the gears, just the teeth and the sync rings - though the plug-n-play idea from Rory is compelling!

Thank you fellow teeners

*********UPDATE***********

Drained all of the fluids - what a mess - I do not have the experience nor the equipment to understand all of the dynamics - but there is a great deal of oil in the system ! It just kept a comin'. Cleaned it all up - again - loosened the 3 bolts that hold the assembly in place and got the jack and the 911 jack plate that I purchased - DID NOT FIT, started a small thread on this topic - perhaps there is a magic adapter I can buy????

Will add picture once the engine is dropped!

******UPDATE*******

Dropped the engine, all the way down it listed to the PORT, I have the engine resting on the Jack with the Pelican Yellow Engine Lift bracket and 2x4s to stabilize, picks below.

Here are some questions for the Teeners

1. If I have the engine on the ground temporarily (I need to wait for the snow to stop to get the engine on the engine stand - small garage, long story) where should I have the engine contact the wood 2x4s? I am concerned that I should NOT rest the engine on the heads - in the picture there is very little weight on the 2x4s, they are stabilizing only.

2. I will be disconnecting the transmission - please note in the last picture the intermediate plate is cracked - suggestions as to this? How do these break, do I get the stronger one to replace it, etc.

3. Engine weight distribution - I was disturbed as it was coming down that it was leaning (listing) to the PORT side of the car, is the engine that much heavier on the left side?

4. Any other advice is always welcome - you may see a problem that I have not recognized, please chime in!

Thank ! YOU!

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THESE ARE SUPPORTING THE ENGINES STABILITY - VERY LITTLE WEIGHT

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Need to replace the transmission plate - this one may have been new?

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Cary
Those are not cracks. They are shadows from casting flash.
I used this assembly on a floor jack to remove /install engine and trans. with
HE's removed.
It was nearly balanced front/rear, left/right with the 4x4s extending forward and the
jack cup centered. The 4x4 are 10" A wood disc could be added to the bottom
of the 2x6" cross board to keep it centered.

Hey Rory,

Yes, I have the transmission apart and those “cracks” are indeed cast-flashing

Everything looks good on the inside, going to change 1st and second sync rings, perhaps 2nd/3rd slider and will take a look at dogteeth on 2nd

Chasing down the infamous 1st=>2nd grind

Will post update soon

Hello,

if you want to look for cracks, you have to take a look at the top!
There are cracks at 911 or 914 transmissions...

Harald

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Harald did you find a reason for this ? Pinion teeth failure ? too much horsepower ?

Two transmissions open, the core is as good as the one out of the 914-6,

Will be replacing Sync in 1&2 DogTeeth in 1&2 as well as the 1stgear/slider (money gear) for the 914-6 as to the core, will rebuild and have it as a spare

Should take care of the 1st to 2nd GRRRRRRRND sound......

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Oh, that’s the reason. I thought you were related to Sammy Hagar. I have a flipped HB in the fifth but also a taller 4th. Great for the highway.

******UPDATE******

DOG TEETH Removal Stalled another week - perhaps 2.

Transmission Inspection this week - all looked OK, need 2 Sync Bands, 2 DogTeeth and a slider.

I found this - looking for the tooth in the case - it was not in the magnetic drain plug, not even in tiny pieces.


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My home brew Dog Teeth removal tool (Muffler Clamps) did not work so I bought a P225 from a very reputable vendor - actually the only vendor that had one in stock - I believe I received a P226, it does not fit and is designed for a heftier gear.

The gear sits too high, the notch does not mate to the ring in the tool

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Bad close up of the same picture - the two do not mate.

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I will move to getting the engine on the stand - doing the 2x4 shuffle to get it out of the engine bay and low enough to clear the rear of the car. Removing Carbs for servicing and CLEANING the engine bay......

FWIW I have the same tool issue. Bought from someone used actually marked P225; represented as a P225; but it clearly isn’t. They are out there floating around.

Please share vendor so that others don’t run into the same issue.

Super Hawk,

Perhaps I am a bit naive, however, I believe that these are honest mistakes (perhaps not in your case) as a result of their being no MODEL STAMP on the tool, the 225 and the 226 are the same with a small (frustrating) variation

I have sent a note to Sir Tools with this suggestion....we shall see......

Depending on the response on Monday I will post more..,...

Understood.

I’ll bet they will make it right. I don’t view the vendor sharing as a slam on them. Just a good heads up to others so they know the issue is occurring and to verify what they received right away vs putting it on a shelf and then falling outside a traditional return period.

In my case, I suspect it was a manufacturing error and whoever I bought it from sold it in good faith as I bought it as part of a bigger lot of trans tools.

Strange how P225 tools have been out of stock for years. Not sure what is going on there.

In my case, I’ll either modify the tool when I get my machine tools back up and running or I’ll save it for someday when I get a 915 transmission

Agreed - my next target is an 84-86 911-SC, could use it then!

As Tom and Ray used to say, every job is an excuse to buy another tool!

CTC

Afternoon Update

Got the carbs off which allowed me to remove the engine from the underside of the car.

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The Engine bay is full of oil residue, next on the list is a good scrub!

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Lots of work to do here - needs new fuel lines, have the stainless ready to go,

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Fly wheel is ground up

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Starter gear is like new - perhaps it is a newer starter.....

**********Afternoon Work Continued***********

Got the Carbs off - they look great

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Cleaning the "Flap Control Boxes" used a solution recommended within these pages, Nice Before and After!

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May powder coat once cleaned............

Is starter one of the gear reduction / Denso types? Some of those have been known to chew up ring gears like that.

So sad to see that type of crap.

Glad you’re going through it thoroughly.

I do not think so - I do not see anything other than direct drive, will check more thoroughly tomorrow - good night SH! Thank you for your support!

2nd the ceramic coating option. I did that with 911 exhaust and thought it was GTEAT

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I may be alone in this thought, however, looking at a 'like new' underside of a 914 is better than any picture I have seen within the SandBox. But, I only go there for the articles........

Yea, I know that it a 911 - I stand by my statement

Your flappers look pretty good. Something that might be worth checking is the inside. The springs and the sealing surface. It wasn't obvious, but the springs on ours were broken. There is a thin one that keeps the disc aligned. This kept the flapper from smoothly going through its motion because the disc inside would bind. The disc itself seems to be fiber (maybe asbestos?) over mesh and can disintegrate.

The flappers are in really good shape - both springs are in great shape, I beleive I will have them vapor blasted and then powder coated. I am experimenting with the 'secret sauce' and its effectiveness - interesting product - low grade (ph) acid solution.

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Your flappers look pretty good. Something that might be worth checking is the inside. The springs and the sealing surface. It wasn't obvious, but the springs on ours were broken. There is a thin one that keeps the disc aligned. This kept the flapper from smoothly going through its motion because the disc inside would bind. The disc itself seems to be fiber (maybe asbestos?) over mesh and can disintegrate.
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Cary your starter is standard 2.0 911- 914 6
Ring gear wear is common on these flywheels ... they've all endured 50 + years of use.
Consider it a consumable. Much like a pressure plate or clutch disc.
The 6 flywheel is the same as any 2.0 911 except...an original 6 flywheel is marked for
ignition timing and valve adjustment positions.
If you can't get a 6 flywheel (NLA) mark the one you get using the V belt pulley as the reference.

As always Rory has great advice - Thank you Rory - there is a 914World member who lives close to me that has one - I will go and see it and most likey purchase it this weekend

Spent a few hours this morning traveling to get a new flywheel from a fellow 914-6 owner - Thank you Mr. M!

Dragged the engine to the beam - when I rebuilt the garage I put in a beam, however, it is never where I need it so I had to squeeze the engine to the beam

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Took off the tin and started washing it - perhaps 50 year of grime on the inside - in places nearly 1 inch thick. Scraped and then Dawn and a brush - will fine-tune the cleaning later

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Tetris with the floor jack to get the engine high enough, the bean is rated for 4000, the pulley system around 2000 (so it says) and the engine is 400ish, still scary work, got the bolts to line up after realizing I was doing it wrong

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Engine on Stand - Tetris with Blocks lift and patience. Not a one man job!

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********UPDATE*********

Heater Manifolds and all tin are being powder Coated

Tin = off gloss black, as close to factor color and shine as possible
Header Assembly = Gray Ceramic, a bit brighter than typical primer

Very Good Vendor in the Boston Area - Pike Powder Coat

Also found a very good capable machine shop - I am taking a mil off of the face of the P225 so that it will fit the Dog Tooth

CTC911CTC