Very strange electrical/hot start issues co-mingling, Make sure you say co-mingling like the priest in Harold and Maude. Options

[emerygt350]

So, all was great this year pulling the car out of its winter sleep. In the last few days I have suddenly had some very strange issues that I suspect are connected. My voltage (measured at the battery) while running has dropped a little from 13.9 or so to 13.7. Progressively worse hot starts. The car seems to be only hitting on a couple cylinders at hot start, maybe only 1. Really feels like the coil is starved for juice. Voltage drops below 11 while turning over. If I get the car to catch, it stumbles till the car gets above 500 rpm or so and the it stops stumbling and runs like a champ. Once it's going it runs perfectly, great afr, good temps, plugs look great, gas mileage is right where it should be.

After trying to start it several times the starter solenoid goes to click mode.

What I have done
1 cleaned all grounds and positive leads from the battery and at the starter solenoid.
2 cleaned the contacts in the fuse box
3 replaced the ignition switch (I had been putting this off, sitting on a new switch for over a year)
The old switch appeared fine. Shocking
4. Rebuilt my resister for the CHT (the old hack job was falling apart)
5 brand new battery positive to starter installed last year.
6 brand new body to transmission ground and a double ground from the battery to the car and the engine again done last year



I have done nothing to the car since pulling it out of winter storage. As I said ran great for a few weeks
Still runs great, just the start issue.


I think it's the battery. It's a 5 year old optima 34r. I took it to the flaps and they said it tested fine.

I am using the ford solenoid hack. Jumping the original solenoid directly does nothing. Just clicks when this is happening. Today was far worse than yesterday. Same hot temps today in the afternoon. Morning cold engine starts right up, spins fast. At least it has done that.


What says the hive mind?

I think the battery is pushing crap voltage till the alternator gets its stuff together.

[emerygt350]

Just went out after letting it sit for a couple hours, still click click. Put my battery jumper on it and it started right up. I think that clinches it? 300 dollar battery bill? The optima treated me well for 5 years. Should I try something else?

[mgphoto]

Just went out after letting it sit for a couple hours, still click click. Put my battery jumper on it and it started right up. I think that clinches it? 300 dollar battery bill? The optima treated me well for 5 years. Should I try something else?

The optima is great when used with a battery tender, like the one Optima sells. 5 years is not great and a few years back a batch of batteries only lasted 2 years. It’s not unheard of a Red top lasting close to 15 years when treated right. I’ve been using them since they were Gates.

[Superhawk996]

Bad ground or electrical connections.

Personally I’d measure voltage drops everywhere in all cables before I started replacing parts and I’d know exactly where the problem is but I keep posting “how to” and no one wants to follow the correct electrical troubleshooting process so I’m not going to revisit that anymore. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (note: I’m being an (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) not really directed at you Emery - but will help guide you if you wish to do this)


Since it sounds like you’ve tired to address the electrical connections via parts swapping & adding some ground redundancy, and have already installed the POS ford solenoid ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) ) to add more complexity and failure modes ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) ) I’d revisit all connections to that solenoid.

The other thing I’d do right away based on you jumping the original solenoid directly and not getting results is to remove the starter and clean the mounting flange to the trans interface. This is a necessary ground path that the starter relies on. Corrosion here can cause the “clicking” failure mode.

Chances are just removing the starter, juggling it, and then reinstalling will improve it. .

After that - could very well be the Bosch solenoid on the starter has become stuck or is getting sticky - taking all you say at face value.

Note: all the ribbing about the Ford solenoid and extra grounds is tongue in cheek, same as I’d do to my best friend. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grouphug.gif)

[Superhawk996]

Just went out after letting it sit for a couple hours, still click click. Put my battery jumper on it and it started right up. I think that clinches it? 300 dollar battery bill? The optima treated me well for 5 years. Should I try something else?

The battery jumper and increased current & voltage capacity is likely overcoming a poor high resistance connection somewhere that your current battery alone couldn’t.

This assumes the battery you have was properly load tested (with at least 100A load) at the FLAPS.

A new battery very well may mask the underlying problem . . . For a while. This is why testing not parts swapping is so important to solving the 914 hot start issues for the long haul.

[Shivers]

Very strange electrical/hot start issues co-mingling, Make sure you say co-mingling like the priest in Harold and Maude.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) Loved the E-type


@emerygt350

[emerygt350]

I hear you hawk. I have been testing voltage throughout the system as best as I can without help. Maybe I can get one of my kids to help me this weekend. Today it did it without being "hot". Car sat for 3 hours started fine, drove two blocks to the store on the way home. Got back in after 10 minutes in the store, strange behavior again, luckily it caught and started running awesome. Temp today was about 60 outside. I will pull the starter and clean up that area.

And I don't think I have been "throwing parts". I would call the cht repair essential since the resistor broke in half, and the ignition switch is another thing I have just been putting off. I haven't done anything else yet.

I am getting 12v at the fuse box under the dash, I have not tried poking at the relay box in the engine compartment.

I do not trust the dufus that tested my battery. I was in a hurry so didn't press it but he hooked up their little hand held box and almost immediately said it was good. I am used to a good load test taking more time and a couple shots.

[Superhawk996]

“ And I don't think I have been "throwing parts".

I’m just giving you a friendly ribbing about the Ford solenoid, and the extra ground cables. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Spend $20 on one of these before you do a $300 battery. I probably use mine about once a year on my mini fleet. Very basic old school but works and you control it and can see what is happening to voltage as 100A load is applied.



To test the battery cables you need to measure voltage drop across the cables while attempting to crank. You need the current draw through the battery cables to measure the voltage drop. It’s either a two person job or need a remote start switch.

Anything more than a 0.1v drop across a battery cable while attempting to crank is too much and indicates bad connection. There are ways to narrow this testing down to know whether the loss is in the wire or at either end termination.