Euro front turn signal bucket position lamp socket contact, Original or hackety-hack hack...? Options

[chmillman]

One for the Euro guys - I know you are relatively few and far between - original spec US cars have full yellow front TS lenses, Euro cars have a small white (clear) portion at the bottom which is a "position lamp" - or parking light. Goes on with the taillights in the first position. Equipped with a 5W BA15s based bulb (R5W).



So, I was thinking of adapting these to become DRL's. I found a few LED's with a BA15s base which claim to have up to 500-600 lumens or more. Same 5 watt draw, but LEDs. So I pulled the lenses off in order to measure how much clearance there is between the bulb and the lens - it's about 10-12mm - the LED's are a bit longer than the standard bulbs, but should still fit. Then I pulled one of the bulbs out to just see what the socket looks like... tried to at least, the bulb would not budge. So I finally pulled out the whole little assembly (held on by 2 screws) and realised that the bulb base was just stuck in there by some oxidation. In getting the bulb loose, the bottom (center) contact came out. And it looks very odd.





To me this looks like something someone hacked together from two uninsulated spade connectors which then just got jammed into the slot. The funny thing is that both left and right sides have the same thing...

I went looking to see if there was a replacement part for the socket and the parts diagram doesn't show anything separate other than the bulb - which makes me feel that if a socket went bad, one had to basically replace the entire TS bucket. So maybe someone hacked the solution above together in order to avoid this - the buckets themselves are actually in pretty good condition.

I'm not at all fond of the current solution - if the contact attached to the wire falls out and contacts the bucket body, I'll have a short. So even if the DRL project doesn't work out, I am now wanting to replace the sockets. I may need to try to adapt something like the following:



However, there's not all that much depth there behind the base, maybe 30mm max. Have to get a couple and see if they might fit.

So basically the question I wanted to ask is - has anyone gone through the same thing with their Euro-spec TS buckets? TIA.

[JeffBowlsby]

Mitch you are probably aware those are not factory original euro buckets, the aluminum plate is definitely aftermarket. Everything is kludgy about those. You might consider finding some real buckets in ebay.de or some other source, might be the easiest way to resolve.

[mepstein]

Buy some Spokeworks led lights. No mods needed. Just plug and play.

[wonkipop]

you are correct about having to buy the entire bucket.

i have both the USA parts catalogue and the ROW catalogue.
as is often the case in the PET catalogues they use the same diagrams and often this means the USA catalogue has a misleading diagram esp on more common parts.

but there are three parts listings.

general ROW bucket (except italy) = PCG 631 401 10
italy = 914 631 401 12
USA = 914 631 401 11

small divider for ROW is not listed as a separate part.

to me the one you have looks stock in every way.
except maybe that spade connection. but i have not seen a euro bucket for a long time.
it was 30 years ago and i cannot remember. it was on a J spec car. but it looks right when you view the image of the unit in the factory workshop manual. but they do not have a detail where that divider holder is disconnected from the bucket.

i do have USA spec entire indicator sidelight units i got 20 years ago and no divider/bulb holder in there. but it seems its a universal bucket they fitted the additional divider into for ROW. but i'd have to see one in the flesh to know for sure.

picture from f w m.

[wonkipop]

i'm only guessing with this, but....

usa bucket.




to me it looks like the bucket itself is a universal casting.
and the pins cast in are for fitting a euro parking light bulb holder divider.
which looks in factory manual to be very similar to what you have in your bucket.
but it would have been bonded in, or glued to those pins.

i think you are right. somebody fixed the bulb holder.
got the divider apart and then to refit it, looks like they drilled holes?
pins probably broke off getting divider out?

[SirAndy]

somebody fixed the bulb holder.
got the divider apart and then to refit it, looks like they drilled holes?
pins probably broke off getting divider out?

As Jeff mentioned, this is a pretty popular aftermarket mod here in the US.

No stock parts were used in the conversion.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[wonkipop]

somebody fixed the bulb holder.
got the divider apart and then to refit it, looks like they drilled holes?
pins probably broke off getting divider out?

As Jeff mentioned, this is a pretty popular aftermarket mod here in the US.

No stock parts were used in the conversion.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

yeah i found a pic.
quite a bit more going on in the real deal. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
nice little curved reflector - makes sense given its parking lights.
though it says this is aftermarket. but old stock. presumably a reasonable copy of originals?

pretty expensive too if you find one.

[burton73]

Here are pictures of my factory euro lights from my 6 back in early 70s
hope it helps

Best Bob B

[chmillman]

Mitch you are probably aware those are not factory original euro buckets, the aluminum plate is definitely aftermarket. Everything is kludgy about those.

No, I was not… Always assumed they were original. Merde.

Buy some Spokeworks led lights. No mods needed. Just plug and play.

Not street-legal here… Would fail the inspection. Hence my idea of just replacing the original bulbs with LEDs – 5 minutes to change them back out for the inspection.

"New" ones here are about $200 a pop and appear to be made of plastic.



Before doing that I will if I can't hack together a reasonable solution that doesn't require replacing the whole bucket.

One of the things that might be concerning if I decide to replace the aftermarket metal buckets with new plastic ones AND do the always-on DRL thing is heat... The original incandescents are 5W. New LEDs going in the same socket will also be 5W or thereabouts. I would think the LEDS would actually produce less heat given that they generate more light (luminous energy) per watt input than incandescents. However, the heat is probably distributed differently. Wondering if the LED lamp base (socket) would get hotter than the incandescent...

[chmillman]

Ummm, guys...? If these are aftermarket buckets, why is there a Hella logo and what appears to be the correct part number (BLPo 152-2) molded in?



I wonder if @wonkipop 's theory is correct, that someone drilled out the original pins and put in screws for some reason.

[wonkipop]

Ummm, guys...? If these are aftermarket buckets, why is there a Hella logo and what appears to be the correct part number (BLPo 152-2) molded in?



I wonder if @wonkipop 's theory is correct, that someone drilled out the original pins and put in screws for some reason.

yours are not aftermarket buckets. (don't think anyone is saying you have aftermarket buckets - just saying they have been modified).
those hella part numbers are the same as the ones i have - see my photos i posted earlier - all the same numbers including the wattage bulbs etc. my buckets are USA indicator units. 30 year old genuine porsche part 914 631 401 11 on the box. the porsche part number is not on the buckets anywhere.

not sure what ROW buckets had, but my theory is only that i suspect all the units used the same basic bucket and the ROW units had that parking light insert fixed into the two pins in the basic bucket. jeff bowlsby and sir andy are right, your buckets dont have the factory insert. it had a curved reflector lens.

your car was originally sourced from the USA - was it not? its not a car originally first sold in europe? so jeff is likely right that someone did the conversion in the USA to give themselves euro look indicator lenses. or.......someone did it in europe after the car was reimported from the USA to agree with european or german regulation requirements.

as an aside most of the 914s in australia have had the same thing done. as our regulations require front white light parking lights. and most of the 914s in australia have been sourced from the USA. i did mine a little differently. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) i fitted headlights with a parking light bulb into the pop up headlights and left the USA lenses alone to act as indicators. and i got it past inspection for road registration that way. much simpler - and also i am a fan of the all amber USA units. i did have to convert the tailights to amber however and use the ROW lens.

so i think thats whats happened with your car. either done in the USA to be "fashionable" or done in europe to get it road registered.
the original ROW units are probably a pretty rare item - hence the "home made" conversion. all i could find when i googled were those aftermarket repros.
i imagine most of the ones in australia are also home made conversions too.
except the original crayfords cars and two factory sixes that came in way back in time in the 1970s.

[sixnotfour]

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=3186410

[chmillman]

yours are not aftermarket buckets. (don't think anyone is saying you have aftermarket buckets - just saying they have been modified).
those hella part numbers are the same as the ones i have - see my photos i posted earlier - all the same numbers including the wattage bulbs etc. my buckets are USA indicator units. 30 year old genuine porsche part 914 631 401 11 on the box. the porsche part number is not on the buckets anywhere.

not sure what ROW buckets had, but my theory is only that i suspect all the units used the same basic bucket and the ROW units had that parking light insert fixed into the two pins in the basic bucket. jeff bowlsby and sir andy are right, your buckets dont have the factory insert. it had a curved reflector lens.

your car was originally sourced from the USA - was it not? its not a car originally first sold in europe?

...

so i think thats whats happened with your car. either done in the USA to be "fashionable" or done in europe to get it road registered.

No, this is a totally Euro car, never seen the other side of the pond, was delivered in France in 74, restored there in 2011 and then sold in Switzerland. GB motor, etc.

The buckets do have the curved 'reflectors', I just removed it in the pix above to show the socket and the holder sheet metal better. Just a thin piece of sheet metal. Here is the other side still in the car:



The reflector is held down by the same screws as the socket support.



If they were supposed to just be stuck on the pins, then yes, those parts are not original, which was actually my original question. I guess the original socket support and reflector were then either a press fit in or designed so that the outer plastic lens actually holds them down and in place. These may indeed have come out of some aftermarket part. I'm thinking the contacts are not original to the sockets, guess they went bad and someone hacked together a solution.

[JeffBowlsby]

^^^ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Aha, missing details tell the story.

The phillips head screws may work but are not original, rivets were. A PO must have drilled them out and performed the creative repair with the bent brass 6mm spade terminals. Find replacement sockets for a correct repair?

[wonkipop]

yours are not aftermarket buckets. (don't think anyone is saying you have aftermarket buckets - just saying they have been modified).
those hella part numbers are the same as the ones i have - see my photos i posted earlier - all the same numbers including the wattage bulbs etc. my buckets are USA indicator units. 30 year old genuine porsche part 914 631 401 11 on the box. the porsche part number is not on the buckets anywhere.

not sure what ROW buckets had, but my theory is only that i suspect all the units used the same basic bucket and the ROW units had that parking light insert fixed into the two pins in the basic bucket. jeff bowlsby and sir andy are right, your buckets dont have the factory insert. it had a curved reflector lens.

your car was originally sourced from the USA - was it not? its not a car originally first sold in europe?

...

so i think thats whats happened with your car. either done in the USA to be "fashionable" or done in europe to get it road registered.

No, this is a totally Euro car, never seen the other side of the pond, was delivered in France in 74, restored there in 2011 and then sold in Switzerland. GB motor, etc.

The buckets do have the curved 'reflectors', I just removed it in the pix above to show the socket and the holder sheet metal better. Just a thin piece of sheet metal. Here is the other side still in the car:



The reflector is held down by the same screws as the socket support.



If they were supposed to just be stuck on the pins, then yes, those parts are not original, which was actually my original question. I guess the original socket support and reflector were then either a press fit in or designed so that the outer plastic lens actually holds them down and in place. These may indeed have come out of some aftermarket part. I'm thinking the contacts are not original to the sockets, guess they went bad and someone hacked together a solution.

ok. yes indeed.

well if nothing else you proved my theory right.
which is the basic bucket is for all the indicators in all markets and they just added the parking light component to the euro cars. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

i would say that somehow the originals used the pins in the indicator bucket - you can see in the photos of my usa units - to attach the factory components and yes, yours has been taken apart and put back together at some point in its long half a century of life.

maybe they used those little star washers to fix the parker light bit to the bucket originally? hard to know without an original to look at. but someone likely has very carefully drilled it all out for screws maybe to fix up the bulb holder as you originally speculated.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[wonkipop]

as an aside and out of interest @chmillman , so your car is a 74 and euro delivered.
in the front trunk is there that curved piece of reinforcing panel behind the front panel int the spare wheel well like USA cars had?

[914sgofast2]

Wasn't there a fellow here in 914 World who was selling converted US to Euro spec light buckets for a while? I think his name was Martin Baker or something similar. There were considered a pretty high quality conversion part if my memory serves me correctly.