oil pump, which one Options

[trojanhorsepower]

All,
I am looking to change the oil pump as a way to up my oil pressure. I understand that this may well not help, but having a new oil pump around is OK.
With that in mind, what are my options? I will pull the motor but hope to not split the case. Is this even possible? Which pump?

Thanks

Peter

[Superhawk996]

Revisit my post #14 in your original thread.

You need to understand what is causing your issue before simply hoping for a better pump. Do you know what your current oil pump end clearance was?

If you’re hell bent on buying a new Type 1 pump blindly, have the vendors measure the pump OD with a micrometer and get one that is the proper dimension. A couple thousands of an inch undersize is a huge deal and amounts to an internal leak that limits oil pressure - especially when hot and especially at idle.

WRT to the question about splitting the case. You don’t have to split the case to swap an oil pump.

[JamesM]

Yeah, what?

Are you looking for just a "new" pump or a larger pump? New type 4 pumps do not exist and none of the available type 1 pumps fit properly and (assuming you have a stock type 4 pump) will most likely make your pressure issues worse due to the excessive pump body to case clearances. A few vendors sell o-ringed pumps to try and remedy the clearance issues but 1. it doesn't fully as orings can only seal the sides of the pump and does nothing about the output leaking back to the input side AND 2. forget about trying to install an o-ringed pump on an already assembled engine.
ALSO A larger pump may move more volume, and it will take more HP do to so, it may also not gain you any pressure and is likely to overwhelm your oil cooler bypass (which may already be occurring anyways) and roast your oil.

Probably should be asked what sort of oil pressure are you currently looking at?
What sort of oil are you currently running?
and When was the last time you pulled your engine tin and cleaned out all the crap?

If you insist on a band aid approach:

Step 1. if you dont already have one, get one of @chrisfoley Oil pressure relief valves. Chances are if your oil pump is worn your bypass valve/spring are worse

Step 2: If after that you still insist on replacing your pump talk to Jorge at European Moterwerks. He sleeves and machines a 27mm type 3 pump to work on a type 4. Its expensive for a VW oil pump but its the only one available that I am aware of with proper port placement, proper clearances, and no O-rings to tear installing on an assembled case.


Someone in Europe had made a run of billet type 4 pumps a while back but haven't seen them in a while, and between the cost of the custom billet part and how the import tariffs have been hitting car parts you would have to really hate your money to bring one in now.

If you’re hell bent on buying a new Type 1 pump blindly, have the vendors measure the pump OD with a micrometer and get one that is the proper dimension. A couple thousands of an inch undersize is a huge deal and amounts to an internal leak that limits oil pressure - especially when hot and especially at idle.

I don't believe they exist, if you find a reliable source please let me know. You would still want to port match them as well.

[Superhawk996]

Someone in Europe had made a run of billet type 4 pumps a while back but haven't seen them in a while, and between the cost of the custom billet part and how the import tariffs have been hitting car parts you would have to really hate your money to bring one in now.

@JamesM

I bought one of those T4 CNC billet pumps back when they were available.

30mm gears so limited use cases
It does have the proper OD and port match
Idler shaft was not pinned or peened as I prefer to do with any T4 pump.


With respect to sizing of T1 pumps it’s a tolerance game - there are some out there that are only 0.001” undersize so it’s a sorting game to find the best parts. I don’t have a reliable source for “good” parts. Your info on the modified T3 pump is interesting. Have never seen that service listed on the website but good to know.

[trojanhorsepower]

@JamesM : Fresh build (20 years ago, but only installed recently). Turned crank, new cam and all bearings, p and c's also new etc. 20w50 oil. Tangerine bypass installed. Oil pressure when hot at low idle is low enough to turn on the oil light. The switch is A 3 psi or close to that unit.

I understand that a different pump may not fix my issue, but it seems worth a try. Is this incorrect?

You guys make it sound like there are no good options for oil pumps?


So new question if you are building a fresh 2056 for tooling around on the weekends what oil pump do you use?

[Superhawk996]

I understand that a different pump may not fix my issue, but it seems worth a try. Is this incorrect?

You guys make it sound like there are no good options for oil pumps?

It is incorrect to try a new pump without measuring and knowing what you have.

If you swap in a new pump with excessive gear end play clearance you’ll have accomplished nothing.

If you swap in a new pump with a drastically undersize pump Outside Diameter - smaller than 2.756” you’ll have accomplished nothing

Note: all info above ASSUMES you’re using a T1 pump - I’m not sure you’ve ever confirmed this? If you have a T4 pump we need to have some other conversations.

[Superhawk996]

So new question if you are building a fresh 2056 for tooling around on the weekends what oil pump do you use?

I’m going to start a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) storm but personally I use the OEM T4 pump with a pinned or peened idler shaft.

The T1 pump quality control over the size of the pump Outside Diameter is a deal breaker . I know this contradicts what Raby used to promote but I believe he spends the time to either sort for best fitting T1 pump parts or is sleeving them himself.

At one point I thought there was a thread where he was having pumps CNC machined up for himself to have proper OD +/- 0.001” 0.002” for select fit. If I can find that link I’ll post it below.

You can do & afford that level of detail at the prices he rightly charges.

See post #13
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=101423

[emerygt350]

I have an old melling in mine. Works great but I know there is some hate out there on them.

[trojanhorsepower]

OK thanks for the replies. I think I am getting there. Sounds like my best option for keeping the car on the road is to build the spare motor, measuring out the pump etc. Swap that in for the first motor then pull the pump measure everything find a pump and reinstall.
90% sure its a T1 pump now.
@superhawk995 do you collect OEM T4 pumps and just go through them to find a good one or do you buy one from one of the main supplier and pin it yourself?

Thanks,

Peter

[Jack Standz]

A couple options that might work for you?:

https://germansupply.com/type-4-oil-pump-billet.html

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1829.htm

Personally, my next type iv motor will have a "blueprinted" o-ringed and modified type I pump from Gene Berg. And oil pressure will be carefully monitored both during initial start-up and use. That's with a gauge, not a light. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Why? Because already have it and it's dimensions are within specifications. And, if it's not working right, it's replaceable.

Edit: And the billet pump is listed at $412 (plus tariffs-taxes, shipping, etc.). But, also just noticed it's currently is out-of-stock. Might not ever be back in-stock?