Dwelling on the topic of Dwell, To continue to Dwell or Not to Dwell Options

[ctc911ctc]

'74, 2.0L 24K miles, all original

I have been trying to get the dwell angle to the specified number between 44 and 50 degrees. This has been a real effort

I rebuilt the Distributor, I thought I did a good job but the vacuum plate was being touched by the points. The shaft that the spring of the points hinges on has an extension that is used to anchor the points. This extension was touching the plate below the one that the points were mounted on.



The red arrow points to the top of the shaft where the other side there is a protrusion used to anchor the points to the top plate. This protrusion was rubbing against the bottom plate which is shown by the green arrow.

Sooooo, I did what all of us would do and ground the shaft to a few mils, just enough for it to anchor and NOT touch the lower plate.

Next I set the points to .014m to approximate the dwell angle and it was 25deg - grrrr, supposed to be between 44 and 50........sigh
Then I sent it to .013 and it was 55deg
Then to 0.12 and it was 15 deg.

I tried another Dwell tool (same results) and then I bought a new Distributor.

I bought it from a very experienced rebuild shop that was suggested by members here, It arrived and I installed it. Capacitor needs to be mounted on the side of the distributor that is toward the rear of the car.....learned this the hard way.

I now can get the dwell to 40 degrees - I am 4 degrees off. I was thinking of chasing this but decided I would check in with the Dwell team here at 914World.......should I chase 4 degrees?

Any direction as to this?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

ALSO - is there a correct method for setting the points? Meaning, I sometimes have the points "click" after I pull the feeler gauge out of the points, should there be ANY movement of the points after the feeler gauge is removed?

Signed: Long on Theory, Short on Experience.

[Superhawk996]

should there be ANY movement of the points after the feeler gauge is removed?

No

[ctc911ctc]

Ok, no is the answer......

How much friction should there be when sliding the feeler out of the points?

What is the correct procedure for assuring that there is no movement when removing the feeler?

Any context from this esteemed forum would be appreciated.....maybe even more than appreciated........ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I am sure I am missing something in the process here,,,,,, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

should there be ANY movement of the points after the feeler gauge is removed?

No

[930cabman]

Ok, no is the answer......

How much friction should there be when sliding the feeler out of the points?

What is the correct procedure for assuring that there is no movement when removing the feeler?

Any context from this esteemed forum would be appreciated.....maybe even more than appreciated........ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I am sure I am missing something in the process here,,,,,, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

should there be ANY movement of the points after the feeler gauge is removed?

No

Feeler gauge MUST be clean.

You should feel some drag as you pull the feeler through. 001 larger should fall through, .001 smaller should not go through

Kind of a "feel" thing, hence the name

[ctc911ctc]

great guidance as to the .001 - will try it tomorrow and report

Ok, no is the answer......

How much friction should there be when sliding the feeler out of the points?

What is the correct procedure for assuring that there is no movement when removing the feeler?

Any context from this esteemed forum would be appreciated.....maybe even more than appreciated........ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I am sure I am missing something in the process here,,,,,, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

should there be ANY movement of the points after the feeler gauge is removed?

No

Feeler gauge MUST be clean.

You should feel some drag as you pull the feeler through. 001 larger should fall through, .001 smaller should not go through

Kind of a "feel" thing, hence the name

[StarBear]

Yep, I always use the feeler that’s .001 larger than the spec, close the points so just a wee bit of drag on the feeler then be sure to screw down the screw real tight. Gets real close and sometimes acceptable dwell on first try though usually on the third or fourth.

[r_towle]

It’s a matchbook cover. No change when removed.
In the dark, side of the road, using no flashlight, in the rain, high.
Grease up the advance plates
Grease the single bearing in between the advance plates

[ctc911ctc]

thank you everyone for your responses

Once last question if you have a dwell angle of 40, do you chase it unitl it is between 44 and 50?

Thanks again teeners

[Superhawk996]

Once last question if you have a dwell angle of 40, do you chase it unitl it is between 44 and 50?

Yes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[StarBear]

Once last question if you have a dwell angle of 40, do you chase it unitl it is between 44 and 50?

Yes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Superhawk996]

Really I’m not trying to be a jerk. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Some don’t like my long answers.

Low dwell angle = weaker spark.

As the rub block wears, dwell angle increases. It’s basically doing a tune-up and starting out of tune. Don’t forget a tiny dab of silicone grease on the rub block and/or felt strip to minimize rub block wear.

More info:
https://www.denso-am.eu/news/deneur21_08_ig...ge%20the%20coil.

[Spoke]

I’m not trying to be a jerk.

Me neither. I've got nothing to add about adjusting dwell.

My 2 cents is there are electronic points available that do away with points, cap, dwell; are easy to install; work amazingly well and are robust. I've been running Pertronix for many years and would never consider using points/cap/dwell again.

[Superhawk996]

FWIW - I actually like points. I’ve never been left walking by a bad set of points.

The problem with any modern fuel injection or electronic ignition is one of the failure modes is instantaneous failure that completely disables the system and there is nothing you can do but walk or wait for the tow truck.

Though I’ll be the first to admit fuel injection and electronic ignitions rarely fail, it really sucks when they do.

[MikeK]

Many years ago, when I worked at an independent VW repair shop, I was taught this method:

Hook up your dwell meter. Attach a remote starter switch. Take the cap off of the distributor and slightly loosen the screw which secures the points, just so there is enough friction to hold them in place. In the distributor are two little tits which correspond to a small slot in the points. Insert a flat blade screwdriver between the tits and the edge of the screwdriver into the slot on the points. This gives you leverage to adjust the points precisely. With the ignition on, crank the motor over with the remote starter and adjust the points until the dwell meter is reading 50 or whatever you want it to be. Tighten the screw fully and done. I've always done this with an analog meter. It's a quick and precise way of doing it.

[930cabman]

I’m not trying to be a jerk.

Me neither. I've got nothing to add about adjusting dwell.

My 2 cents is there are electronic points available that do away with points, cap, dwell; are easy to install; work amazingly well and are robust. I've been running Pertronix for many years and would never consider using points/cap/dwell again.

My new Pertronix setup just arrived, the days of me filing/adjusting points might be over. I recently changed on my /6 conversion, day and night

[TheCabinetmaker]

I don't use a feeler gauge. Eyeball it, tighten screw, check dwell.
if it's too high reduce the gap. Too low, increase gap. Check dwell again. Repeat till it's at 47\48 degrees. Tighten screw good, and then set timing to 27⁰tdc. Timing will change 2⁰ for every one degree of dwell change.

[technicalninja]

Many years ago, when I worked at an independent VW repair shop, I was taught this method:

Hook up your dwell meter. Attach a remote starter switch. Take the cap off of the distributor and slightly loosen the screw which secures the points, just so there is enough friction to hold them in place. In the distributor are two little tits which correspond to a small slot in the points. Insert a flat blade screwdriver between the tits and the edge of the screwdriver into the slot on the points. This gives you leverage to adjust the points precisely. With the ignition on, crank the motor over with the remote starter and adjust the points until the dwell meter is reading 50 or whatever you want it to be. Tighten the screw fully and done. I've always done this with an analog meter. It's a quick and precise way of doing it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

If you have to use points that is "the way".
Give the coil wire something to ground on or you can have "sparkies" inside the cap

I vastly prefer COP (coil on plug). Gets rid of everything!
Also has the ability to have 650+ degrees of "dwell"...

It's called "coil saturation time" instead of "dwell" and it increases the ignition systems power by a HUGE factor.
I've seen a COP system bridge a gap of 4 inches! Deep BLUE lightning bolt that sounds like an arc welder.

You have to be more careful!
In a worst-case situation, you will need a defibrillator to re-start your heart...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

[ctc911ctc]

I am usually good with instructions, however, I am at a loss in this conversation.

Can you point (no pun) them out to us within this picture?

Many years ago, when I worked at an independent VW repair shop, I was taught this method:

Hook up your dwell meter. Attach a remote starter switch. Take the cap off of the distributor and slightly loosen the screw which secures the points, just so there is enough friction to hold them in place. In the distributor are two little tits which correspond to a small slot in the points. Insert a flat blade screwdriver between the tits and the edge of the screwdriver into the slot on the points. This gives you leverage to adjust the points precisely. With the ignition on, crank the motor over with the remote starter and adjust the points until the dwell meter is reading 50 or whatever you want it to be. Tighten the screw fully and done. I've always done this with an analog meter. It's a quick and precise way of doing it.

[Superhawk996]

Circled in green, thin arrow in red. Should be self evident which is which. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[ctc911ctc]

Got the dwell to 45, car never ran better, power through 5k

I will write a detailed overview of this later